this is looking a lot more like a karl rove 2004 election than a barack obama 2008 election. >> and even in the michigan quinnipiac poll that shows the president leading substantially, he's losing independents. and that is the strongest argument the romney campaign will make against all these polls that show the president up, which is you may be oversampling democrats to some extent in some of these polls. if romney is winning independents in ohio, if romney's winning independents in ohio, they think he's going to win. >> so why would pollsters -- and this is an important question, the romney people say they're oversampling democrats. and we've seen some of these polls, depths plus nine, plus eight, plus seven, why would -- because obviously, the pollster's credibility is on the line. this is how they make their living. this is like buying a car whose doors fall off. people feed their children based on the accuracy of their polls. so why would they skew the sample overly democratic? >> because that's what's coming back in their survey. >> the pollsters don't start with a set idea of what